I like this post and the "theory of deep learning" posts. But I think I still haven't figured out how to model your view, especially the specifics of the pessimism here. Maybe we should discuss in person. In particular I'm not sure what "deep learning theory" encompasses.
My sense of mechinterp theory is that it's similar to pre- standard model physics.
Heuristically, here's a thought experiment. Suppose we're worried about the sun destroying the earth and want to understand as much as possible about the physics of solar plasmas and supernovas; but we currently only have (a vaguely historical pastiche of) pre-WW2 physics. Physics then roughly had the following components:
In our world, iterating on these techniques gave us the standard model (and we understood solar plasma and some basics of supernovas before this). I think the promise of theory is that analogs of these techniques (maybe: SAE, large-N limits, toys like mod-add) will give us robust mechanism-finding tools. I think a lot of criticism of theory sounds to me like someone who in that world is saying "none of the current tools explain the sun even approximately, so we're on the wrong track" - but that's not how theory works (until you've found a "critical mass" of the standard model, or at least all parts of it relevant in a field of interest, you'll only be explaining tiny fractions of the observations). I know you're not making this criticism, but I feel like currently you are flattening the different components above into one notion of "theory good vs. theory bad".
I'd guess that you're skeptical about whether the analogs of 1-5 in ML theory are actually useful for "making progress towards the standard model", but I'm not sure from your post which of these you think is most lacking (or if this picture is even compatible with your criticism).
My guess is that your issue is wrt something like my #1: certain heuristics that people were excited about and hoped would explain generalization turned out to be more complicated. My view is that in modern theory, VC dimension is considered largely defunct in models with nontrivially interesting data (even as simple as mod-add), but I'm not sure why this is the important thing about theory. If you take a more modern theory like mean field or even NTK, it has a non-VC notion of generalization: e.g. NTK/ Gaussian processes can replicate generalization in mnist (related to some data spectrum properties), and mean field theory can (currently only on the Bayesian level - this is unpublished work with Kaarel) explain generalization on polynomially many samples of any mechanism that can be encoded in a small (algorithms) circuit. It's of course not guaranteed to converge to the same mechanism, but has the same notion of learnable vs. un-learnable on a polynomial-vs-exponential complexity theory level. It also does replicate the correct modular addition generalizing algorithm (NTK does not).
Hm. I'm going to first nitpick your specific example of pre-standard model physics and the sun, then respond to the overall point.
My impression is that pre-WW2 physics had a lot more wins re: the sun than either deep learning theory circa 2016 or even current learning mechanics (as used in the Simon et al paper) has for current mech interp. (I'm not familiar with your unpublished mean field theory work, and I also haven't been keeping up to date on Singular Learning Theory work.
So I think that, while people did not know whether the sun would go nova or somehow transition into a white dwarf, we knew the composition of the sun (1), the mechanism through which it generated energy (2), had statistical relationships between stellar mass, luminosity, and temperature (3), had proposed two stellar remnants that the sun could eventually become (4, 5), and had a strong sense of what the time scale these events would happen at (6).
Arguably, deep learning theory circa 2016 had only a (6) analogue (namely, how well deep learning seemed to work in practice). Deep learning theory in 2026 has in addition its versions of (3) (scaling laws, which were first noted around 2020) and rudimentary analogues of (4) and (5) (NTKs/infinite width/depth limits in general, perhaps?). But we don't have any analogues for 1 or 2 (which are the mechanisms through which SGD on deep neural networks produces smart systems) except in a very rudimentary way (something about circuits, gradient scales, and loss landscapes, perhaps?), and there's a fair amount of evidence that our 4/5 analogues aren't great.
Specifically, I think the relevant work for understanding the fate of the sun (at least on the scale of "does it go nova") wasn't so much the standard model as relativistic quantum mechanics + general relativity, a lot of which had been worked out by the 1930s. Spectral lines gave us the composition of the sun, e=mc^2 suggested the mechanism for energy generation, and relativistic quantum mechanics pointed to two possible stellar remnants.
I think there's two ways to make your case go through, though:
Responses to these two cases:
To clarify, my case isn't so much "don't invest in theory research" -- I actually think we should invest in much more theory research! -- as opposed to "I don't expect classical learning theory approaches to work, and the standard academic response to this (learning mechanics) seems to have just dropped the level of ambition so much as to be uninteresting". Specifically, I think any theoretical approach that seeks to explain large chunks of deep learning should be able to articulate a clear novel insight ala relativity or QM that differentiates it from pre-2019 learning theory, or else be treated with a level of skepticism that can only be overcome with interesting empirical results.
The Singular Learning Theory people have several insights of this form -- e.g. the old learning theory both used a wrong notion of generalization and failed to account for degeneracies in the loss landscape. ARC Theory and the comp mech people both have their own versions of these insights as well. I suspect you can articulate something like this for your work with Kareel (though I haven't seen it) as well -- iirc it was something like "modern versions of mean field theory in physics can handle higher order interactions than the earlier approaches that people used for studying generalization" or something?
Very good nitpicks. I definitely don't know my physics history well (but even with my limited knowledge, I was gesturing at a cartoon level of understanding that mixed different early-20th-century pictures on different phenomena).
Re mean field - it's not higher order, but lower order. Mean field is to NTK what classical mechanics is to quantum mechanics (in particular NTK + higher order corrections still has most of the bad generalization properties of NTK). The new insight is that while the expansion in NTK is always around a trivial classical theory, nontrivial classical theories also exist and are better-behaved from a complexity viewpoint
For future reference, after speaking more with Dmitry + reading more of the papers linked in the Simon et al "Scientific Theory of Deep Learning" paper, I've become (slightly) more positive on deep learning theory, at least the mean-field line of work he mentioned in his comments.
I wrote up a bit of the history of that line of work, and why I've become more optimistic on deep learning theory in the past few days: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/6SRq7mZ97Dwuavwb6/maybe-i-was-too-harsh-on-deep-learning-theory-three-days-ago
These randomly trained models, are they uncertain or confidently wrong on the test data?
My model of what is going on here is that stochastic gradient descent is acting roughly like an MCMC sampling method. It's producing a random sample from the space of low loss parameters. And that the simpler hypothesis correspond to larger parameter space volumes.
When the network needs to memorize, it needs to use nearly all it's parameters, meaning a small parameter-space volume. When the network is learning a pattern, it's only using a small fraction of it's parameters on the pattern, and the rest of the parameters can be almost anything, so long as they don't get in the way. This means simple hypothesis have a huge volume in parameter space. (This is basically the lottery ticket hypothesis, and it explains why network distillation is so effective.)
MCMC means sampling from the distribution proportional to
So the network training will choose the simplest hypothesis available.
Grokking makes sense if the simpler hypothesis are sometimes harder for local greedy search methods to find.
Around 10 years ago, a paper came out that arguably killed classical deep learning theory: Zhang et al.'s aptly titled Understanding deep learning requires rethinking generalization.
Of course, this is a bit of an exaggeration. No single paper ever kills a field of research on its own, and deep learning theory was not exactly the most productive and healthy field at the time this was published. And the paper didn't come close to addressing all theoretical approaches to understanding aspects of deep learning. But if I had to point to a single paper that shattered the feeling of optimism at the time, it would be Zhang et al. 2016.[1]
Believe it or not, this unassuming table rocked the field of deep learning theory back in 2016, despite probably involving fewer computational resources than what Claude 4.7 Opus consumed when I clicked the “Claude” button embedded into the LessWrong editor.
Let’s start by answering a question: what, exactly, do I mean by deep learning theory?
At least in 2016, the answer was: “extending statistical learning theory to deep neural networks trained with SGD, in order to derive generalization bounds that would explain their behavior in practice”.
Since the seminal work of Valiant in the mid 1980s, statistical learning theory had been the dominant approach for understanding machine learning algorithms. The framework imagined a data distribution D over inputs X and outputs Y where the goal was to fit a hypothesis h : X → Y that minimized the expected test loss for a loss function L : X × Y → R over D. A learning algorithm would receive n samples from the data distribution, and would minimize the training loss averaged across the sample L(h(x), y).
The core results of this approach took the form of generalization bounds: given some metric of complexity of the hypothesis class H, bound the difference between the average training loss and the test loss in terms of this metric of hypothesis complexity. To put it in less technical terms, a generalization bound basically says:
The field of statistical learning had settled on a few preferred ways to measure complexity: VC dimension and Rademacher complexity being the two main metrics, though some researchers considered alternatives such as the margin between positive/negative example from the classification boundary.
The success of modern deep learning, starting from the early 2010s, posed something of an existential crisis for this field. By all the metrics – including both VC Dimension and Rademacher complexity – even a simple MLP with sigmoidal or ReLU activations represents far too complicated a hypothesis class to not immediately overfit on the training data. If the VC dimension results for a neural network are assumed to be asymptotically tight up to constraints, then no neural network with even 100,000 parameters should be able to do anything useful on data points not included in the training data. Yet, not only were neural networks performing better than other machine learning algorithms, by the mid 2010s there was a growing list of examples where neural networks with tens of millions of parameters solved problems (such as the ImageNet challenge) that no other machine learning algorithm could make much progress on.
This classic XKCD was published in September 2014, right about the time where neural networks started to make image classification viable without years of dedicated research effort.
Clearly, neural networks did generalize. If traditional metrics of complexity, based on the representation capacity of the class of neural networks with arbitrarily specified, infinite precision floating points, failed at capturing the simplicity of neural networks in practice, then the field simply needed to construct new simplicity measures to argue that neural networks learned simple functions in practice.
This was the approach taken in several papers around the time. For example, Neyshabur, Tomioka, Srebro’s Norm-Based Capacity Control in Neural Networks (2015) constructed a complexity measure based on the Frobenius norm of the weight matrices in a deep neural network. Hardt, Recht, and Singer’s Train faster, generalize better: Stability of stochastic gradient descent (2015)[2] showed that neural networks trained with a small number of SGD steps with sufficiently small step size were uniformly stable in that removing a single training example would not change the model’s loss on any particular test example by very much.
At least when I first entered the field of deep learning as an undergrad in early 2016, there was a sense of cautious optimism: we would find the way in which neural networks in realistic regimes were simple, and thereby derive generalization bounds that would be applicable in practice.
So, what did Zhang et al. 2016 actually show? Why did understanding deep learning require rethinking generalization?
To quote the paper, the “central finding can be summarized as: Deep neural networks easily fit random labels”. Specifically, the authors trained neural networks on the standard-at-the-time CIFAR10 and ImageNet benchmarks to memorize random labels, while following standard procedures and training for the same order of magnitude of steps. They also show that with similar techniques, neural networks could be trained to memorize random noise inputs.
From the introduction of Zhang et al. 2016. You know that a paper is going to be impactful when its central finding is exactly 7 words long.
Why is this an effective death knell for the simplicity-and-generalization-bound approach? The authors' results show that the same class of neural networks, trained with the same learning algorithm, can generalize when given true labels and memorize random ones. This shows that the hypothesis class of neural networks that are learnable with standard techniques cannot be simple in any useful sense, at least for complexity measures that depend only on properties of the hypothesis class and (data-independent) properties of the learning algorithm.
The paper has 5 important parts. Let's go through each of them.
The key figure from the Zhang et al. paper: subfigures (a) and (b) show that neural networks are able to perfectly memorize random labels without many additional training steps, and (c) confirms that models in their regime interpolate between chance performance and good performance on the test set.
The authors also train an InceptionV3 model on ImageNet with random labels, and find that it can get 95.2% top-1 accuracy on the train set.
The ImageNet results from the paper are similar in that neural networks can memorize random labels to a large extent. Unlike with the CIFAR10 results, the authors also report the extent regularization impedes the memorization ability of the network (not very much).
They also demonstrate empirically that smaller norm doesn’t imply better generalization – by applying preprocessing to an MNIST dataset to increase its effective dimensionality for a linear classifier, the resulting larger linear classifier has higher norm but less generalization error (this result also undercuts the weight-norm based approach to explaining generalization in neural networks).
Amusingly, the quick thoughts put forth by the authors in this setting would go on to become quite influential, both in that people would study the behavior of SGD in overparameterized linear regimes, and that it hints toward future puzzles such as double descent.
So, how did the field of deep learning theory react to this paper? What were the attempts to get around this result using data-dependent generalization bounds? And what was the paper that arguably sealed the deal on the whole edifice, and nailed the proverbial coffin shut?
I'll answer these questions in tomorrow's post.
Notably, Zhang et al. 2016 got best paper at ICLR 2017, so it was widely recognized as important even at the time.
Note that both Hardt and Recht were also authors on the Zhang et al. paper.