All of Adam Scholl's Comments + Replies

I'm curious if "trusted" in this sense basically just means "aligned"—or like, the superset of that which also includes "unaligned yet too dumb to cause harm" and "unaligned yet prevented from causing harm"—or whether you mean something more specific? E.g., are you imagining that some powerful unconstrained systems are trusted yet unaligned, or vice versa?

I agree it seems good to minimize total risk, even when the best available actions are awful; I think my reservation is mainly that in most such cases, it seems really important to say you're in that position, so others don't mistakenly conclude you have things handled. And I model AGI companies as being quite disincentivized from admitting this already—and humans generally as being unreasonably disinclined to update that weird things are happening—so I feel wary of frames/language that emphasize local relative tradeoffs, thereby making it even easier to conceal the absolute level of danger.

• *The rushed reasonable developer regime.* The much riskier regimes I expect, where even relatively reasonable AI developers are in a huge rush and so are much less able to implement interventions carefully or to err on the side of caution.

I object to the use of the word "reasonable" here, for similar reasons I object to Anthropic's use of the word "responsible." Like, obviously it could be the case that e.g. it's simply intractable to substantially reduce the risk of disaster, and so the best available move is marginal triage; this isn't my guess, but I do... (read more)

I agree we don’t currently know how to prevent AI systems from becoming adversarial, and that until we do it seems hard to make strong safety cases for them. But I think this inability is a skill issue, not an inherent property of the domain, and traditionally the core aim of alignment research was to gain this skill.

Plausibly we don’t have enough time to figure out how to gain as much confidence that transformative AI systems are safe as we typically have about e.g. single airplanes, but in my view that’s horrifying, and I think it’s useful to notice how different this situation is from the sort humanity is typically willing to accept.

Incorrect: OpenAI leadership is dismissive of existential risk from AI.

Why, then, would they continue to build the technology which causes that risk? Why do they consider it morally acceptable to build something which might well end life on Earth?

I don’t expect a discontinuous jump in AI systems’ generality or depth of thought from stumbling upon a deep core of intelligence

I felt surprised reading this, since "ability to automate AI development" feels to me like a central example of a "deep core of intelligence"—i.e., of a cognitive ability which makes attaining many other cognitive abilities far easier. Does it not feel like a central example to you?

Your posts about the neocortex have been a plurality of the posts I've been most excited to read this year. I'm super interested in the questions you're asking, and it drives me nuts that they're not asked more in the neuroscience literature.

But there's an aspect of these posts I've found frustrating, which is something like the ratio of "listing candidate answers" to "explaining why you think those candidate answers are promising, relative to nearby alternatives."

Interestingly, I also have this gripe when reading Friston and Hawkins. And I feel like I als... (read more)

I feel confused about why, on this model, the researchers were surprised that this occurred, and seem to think it was a novel finding that it will inevitably occur given the three conditions described. Above, you mentioned the hypothesis that maybe they just weren't very familiar with AI. But looking at the author list, and their publications (e.g.1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8), this seems implausible to me. Most of the co-authors are neuroscientists by training, but a few have CS degrees, and all but one have co-authored previous ML papers. It's hard for me to i... (read more)

I appreciate you writing this, Rohin. I don’t work in ML, or do safety research, and it’s certainly possible I misunderstand how this meta-RL architecture works, or that I misunderstand what’s normal.

That said, I feel confused by a number of your arguments, so I'm working on a reply. Before I post it, I'd be grateful if you could help me make sure I understand your objections, so as to avoid accidentally publishing a long post in response to a position nobody holds.

I currently understand you to be making four main claims:

1. The system is just doing the total

I agree, in the case of evolution/humans. I meant to highlight what seemed to me like a relative lack of catastrophic within-mind inner alignment failures, e.g. due to conflicts between PFC and DA. Death of the organism feels to me like one reasonable way to operationalize "catastrophic" in these cases, but I can imagine other reasonable ways.

As I understand it, your point about the distinction between "mesa" and "steered" is chiefly that in the latter case, the inner layer is continually receiving reward signal from the outer layer, which in effect heavily restricts the space of possible algorithms the outer layer might give rise to. Does that seem like a decent paraphrase?

One of the aspects of Wang et al.'s paper that most interested me was that the inner layer in their meta-RL model kept learning even once reward signal from the outer layer had ceased. It feels plausible to me that the relat... (read more)

It could both be the case that there exists catastrophic inner alignment failure between humans and evolution, and also that humans don't regularly experience catastrophic inner alignment failures internally.

In practice I do suspect humans regularly experience internal inner alignment failures, but given that suspicion I feel surprised by how functional humans do manage to be. In other words, I notice expecting that regular inner alignment failures would cause far more mayhem than I observe, which makes me wonder whether brains are implementing some sort of alignment-relevant tech.

The thing I meant by "catastrophic" is just "leading to death of the organism." I suspect mesa-optimization is common in humans, but I don't feel confident about this, nor that this is a joint-carvey ontology. I can imagine it being the case that many examples of e.g. addiction, goodharting, OCD, and even just "everyday personal misalignment"-type problems of the sort IFS/IDC/multi-agent models of mind sometimes help with, are caused by phenomena which might reasonably be described as inner alignment failures.

But I think these things don't kill people very... (read more)